LNF Ethanol Experiment

[BLAZIN07SS]

good to see you guys trying something different

[Iam Broke]

Loaded a 2700 psi TF/HPT combo tune but haven't been able to test it yet.

Having the same cranking issues as Gimp. Wondering if the LSJ's on E85 have the issue and what they did to resolve it?

I was thinking about advancing the timing during cranking to see if it helps any. Any suggestions? I could post in the LSJ section I suppose, maybe someone here can offer ideas?

[Terminator]

Loaded a 2700 psi TF/HPT combo tune but haven't been able to test it yet.

Having the same cranking issues as Gimp. Wondering if the LSJ's on E85 have the issue and what they did to resolve it?

I was thinking about advancing the timing during cranking to see if it helps any. Any suggestions? I could post in the LSJ section I suppose, maybe someone here can offer ideas?

Try adding 2* to the whole cranking spark table. See if it helps with starting.

[Iam Broke]

I added 3* across the cranking table and it almost caught, I'll add 3 more degrees tonight just to see.

Had a great pull tonight but it's slower than the 48% E by a few tenths, even at 2700 psi fuel pressure it went lean in the midrange at 13 ms inj duty cycle and a lambda up to a peak of 0.98. No knock (thank God) but when it hit 6100 rpm it limped out on low fuel pressure again at the end of the pull.

I gave it all I could, but it ain't getting enough fuel to support 30+ VE lb/min. Tomorrow night I'll be going back to a 1:1 blend of E85 and E10 93. Thanks for all that have helped me on this experiment. I'll be rockin E48 from now forward, just a pain to fill up again!

Here's a screen cap of the pull. If anyone wants the .xls file of the pull, I posted it on HPTuners. Can't upload .xls files here.

[SloFive]

Nice work. You have saved people a lot of trouble/money. Term just sent my final E48 tune yesterday. You guys are awesome.

[Iam Broke]

Nice work. You have saved people a lot of trouble/money. Term just sent my final E48 tune yesterday. You guys are awesome.

Thanks!

[Iam Broke]

Back to dialing in the E48, 4.68 sec 60-100 today but it went a tad rich in the midrange. Working on the correction table. Saw 31 lb/min VE airflow.

[Iam Broke]

Cooler temps and much more aggressive timing have improved my ricer run time to 4.406 sec 60-100 mph on the ~50% ethanol.

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31589

[06Black]

injectors will be out soon. every one should know where there coming from already.

with how close the LMT you can run the LNF as is, and how little room there is to grow before your at MBT, i see much less of an advantage to e85 on these then the LSJs. and sacrificing the air mass is not an option in my book.

[Terminator]

injectors will be out soon. every one should know where there coming from already.

with how close the LMT you can run the LNF as is, and how little room there is to grow before your at MBT, i see much less of an advantage to e85 on these then the LSJs. and sacrificing the air mass is not an option in my book.

What are you talking about? Have you ever tuned an LNF running a E-85 gas mix? You do realize he has cut about a full second off his 60-100 times running the E-48 which indicates the car is making more torque and horsepower than before. One of cars I tuned dynoed before and after and he gained 30 whp and 32 wrtq with just the E-48 and some timing work. Boost levels were never adjusted.

[Iam Broke]

Yes, actually it's more than a full second now, around 1.2 sec. My average 60-100 on 93 pump gas and 15* timing was 5.6, 5.5 sec on a good day.

I haven't lost any VE airflow, it actually peaks around 5k at 30.5 lbs/min now.

Of course the MAF lb/min is skewed high to force the ECU to add enough fuel to satisfy the PE lambda for E48 since we don't have access to any Stoich tables.

Thanks for your input.

[06Black]

id call it more of a bump in effective area then pure "power" at least until you could hit the rollers.

considering you've got the "ultimate" cam. being able to shift, and broaden the curve. working the transient cam tables (out side of the max/max) will net quicker roll run times, but not necessarily bigger peak numbers. hell, a mild clip on the turbine side pushes the top end flow past what the compressor will support, but does net a larger peak.

what i'm more curious about now is what you started that test with, fuel and tune wise. 93 'round here, on a farily stock car was netting airflow readings(maf and VE) in excess 31-32lb.

the stuff i've tried, tune wise, for people who want to go e85 have never equated to what was possible with 93 or 94. on e85, to get the AFR's down enough to keep the EGT's under control the airmass was suffering. sure timeing went up, but it never offset that loss of air. this was shown in the logs.

now when the new bits hit the market, and injection window drops....well.....then i see a whole new level of fun opening up.

[Terminator]

id call it more of a bump in effective area then pure "power" at least until you could hit the rollers.

considering you've got the "ultimate" cam. being able to shift, and broaden the curve. working the transient cam tables (out side of the max/max) will net quicker roll run times, but not necessarily bigger peak numbers. hell, a mild clip on the turbine side pushes the top end flow past what the compressor will support, but does net a larger peak.

what i'm more curious about now is what you started that test with, fuel and tune wise. 93 'round here, on a farily stock car was netting airflow readings(maf and VE) in excess 31-32lb.

the stuff i've tried, tune wise, for people who want to go e85 have never equated to what was possible with 93 or 94. on e85, to get the AFR's down enough to keep the EGT's under control the airmass was suffering. sure timeing went up, but it never offset that loss of air. this was shown in the logs.

now when the new bits hit the market, and injection window drops....well.....then i see a whole new level of fun opening up.

ZZP made 371 whp uncorrected (353 whp SAE) on E-85 on a stock turbo LNF with raised fuel pressure to 2800 psi. Not sure how much timing they are running but I know what it can take on a half and half mix and not knock so I would imagine at least 25* or more up top. Heck you can run 25* in the midrange with no knock. Airflow stays the same according to my logs but torque output is definately up throughout the entire curve. ZZP also just ran a 11.6 at 119 MPH on the stock turbo with E-85.