Will the big rear swaybar lower lap times?
My first post here.
Will a rear swaybar lower my lap times? Any predictions in improvement on a 2 minute lap from you guys that know?
I run in a time trials thing locally, in the street tire class (Kumho 245/35 XS's on 8' wheels, PF01's) in my stock SS/TC Cobalt.
I'm very experienced at the track (70+ track, time trial days, no wheel to wheel, I'm getting old so I'm not sure I'll get around to w2w). Just wondering if it will go faster. I'm sure it will be more fun.
Last edited by wrxpappy; 06-17-2011 at 09:50 PM.
If a rear sway bar would lower lap times, what would be the point? It should help quite a bit.
Originally Posted by wrxpappy
If you're 'very experienced at the track' you should already know the answer to this.
There is no black/white answer but, if your driving style will benefit from more initial turn in then yes. You really need to add some pedders springs too...but your experience was explained with this thread and main question.
Maybe I worded this funny. If the rear bar helps me lower my lap times, then I win bigger and more. If it just makes the car easier, or more fun to drive, I won't put one on. I'm cheap and lazy.
Don't worry about my experience, tell me what the car will do. I can get most of what the car has to give. I can't lower because I'm racing D/S SCCA autocross. I love that PAX!! I would pull the bar off for autocross and back on for track days.
It'll help the car rotate more.
If your driving style would benefit from more rotation, then have at it.
Thanks Tommy and Steddy. I understand what you are saying. I edited my experience to be more clear.
I'm not much of a setup guy because I've run most the cars I've owned in stock autocross classes. I do own a race car Miata and have run a CRX STS car on the track too (real tail happy), so I've had some good experience with properly set-up cars, but I didn't do the setup. I guess that's why I'm asking.
A rear bar will help rotation and turn in, it allows the front tires do more work, i would say it should most definitely yield improved times on a two minute lap.
GMSC's Official Source for HID's and other lighting/electrical needs
Email me for HID/electrical supply needs Lights@gmsportcompact.net
Yes for autox a big rear bar will help, however for Stock class the rear bar cannot be changed only the front. If your experienced you know that, so I am curious why your asking. Sorry I am not trying to be a butt, but I am assuming you know the rules right?
SP allows rear bar change.
Re-read the post, sorry. I can tell you with the hardcore bar on the car my Miller motorsports time was faster than stock. I have not been out yet with XXX so I do not know how it will work. However making up for my first post. If you do have the experience my prediction is the XXX will help reduce the push. Again assuming you da man and know how to work with a very tight rear end.
Slowbalt.
Get the XXX bar then. I have the hardcore, and want way more bar, so I'm upgrading to the XXX. If you're used to driving a loose CRX, then you'll think a Cobalt with a big rear bar is nothing. I have to do evil things to make my Cobalt rotate. IMO, the Cobalt is very easy to drive, and it doesn't turn in anywhere nearly as fast as a well setup Honda. John's bar is easy to install, so your plan to yank it for track days works well.
what a great bunch of replies, this forum kicks ass...
the way the genuine Powell Sways bars are made and mounted, both the roll stiffness and the roll centre are changed becasue of a change to the shear point. Maven hit the nail on the head with his comment, the rear bar works the front, it;s effect is on the front. Turn in is improved, yes; it helps rotation, yes. But the most important part of the rear bar is it helps the drive off the corner, with a front drive car, that is critical. For a lap time improvement, the mosy significant thhing you will do to your car is put on stickier tires. The better the tire, the more bar you need. At CED, we will be introducing our latest tweek for the TWB. It has an achilles heel. Wangspeed, Maven, Steddy and Slowbalt know about this. We have the solution.
Thanks John, I was hoping you'd say something. I have to stay on 140 or more street tires for my class at the time trials. If I go race tires, a couple of race cars show up. From the STS days I think the XS has to be one of the best street tires for what I do (these are TERRIBLE when it's cold for street driving, but the Cobalt warms them up fast at the track).
I really enjoy driving the Cobalt at the track and autocross. It's very easy and honest to drive. I can throw it around without it biting me, unlike some of the other cars I have driven.
Yes, this is a great forum. That's why I'm here instead of somewhere else.... I'll have to do the rear bar.
What's TWB?
Slowbalt, do you have the white 4 dr SS?
Scott Hebert has the White SS I have a red one. Ran a year or so in packwood and at wendover against both Deitz and Strelnicks. Knowing you autox, you will know my other car. It is Gary Thomasons previous Black vette. I have continued to develop it and it is a ton to drive. However beating Eric or Andy in SSM seems very difficult so I will play in DSP and see how I can do against the BMW's . Again, very sorry for not completely reading your thread before.
Slowbalt
I get it. Hi Allan, this is Gordon.
Gordon, you bum. Get the XXX for the track you will like it.
I will get ahold of you next time I take out the Balt. Would love to drive against ya with the changes I have made.
XXX is here. Do the large bolt holes go on top or the small? Any other tricks to install? There are no instructions. If there is a way to screw up installation I will find it.
Also, breaking in new stock pads on new stock rotors, any suggestions?
- R 0 B 3 R T 0 - ███ FükenDübben -
the tig'd weld in spacer goes against the beam; its to clear the V beam so it doesnt rattle. Dont use plastic isolators bad things can happen if you do. I am not sure if your got the genuine Powell Race Parts bar or not I cant figure out stage names against real names.
To avoid thermal shock I bed new pads on old rotors, new rotors on old pads, I try not to bed new and new . But so long as you bring the brake temperature up without high pedal effort you should be good. I suggest you drive normally on the street, then when you get to the autoX track they will come in okay my advice.
Thanks guys for figuring out what I meant. Yea, I got the bar straight from Powell. Thanks for the brake tips. I'll be on the track in 2 weeks and I'll be able to see if there is an improvement in my laps. Hopefully not as hot as the last day (101).
keep us posted
- the "other" blue redline -
I've spent 90% of my money on cars, guns and airplanes.
The rest I've wasted.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
